ARE YOU FUCKKIINGGG KIDDING ME HE LITERALLY JUST STEPS IN FRONT OF THE CAR THAT IS ON FIRE AND COULD CRUSH HIS BODY AND NONCHALANTLY MOVES ASIDE LIKE ITS NOTHING I MEAN WHATS GOING THROUGH YOUR MIND BUCKY LIKE OH IM GONNA WAIT TILL THE LAST SECOND TO MOVE BC I FEEL LIKE BEING THEATRICAL
things that are both attractive and terrifying: people who are SO SURE of where they are and where everything else is such that they can do shit like this with zero chance of being crushed by a flaming SUV.
The longer he watches it head on, the better idea he has of exactly how it’s going to land, and how likely he is to have to take additional steps to make sure Fury is Actually Dead after it comes to rest. (Especially since from that position he can see THROUGH the front windshield and thus can see what’s happening to Fury in the seat.)
1. LOOK AT THAT FAMILY RESEMBLANCE, NO ONE SPEAK TO ME OR MY HANDSOME BIRD SON EVER AGAIN
2. Re: Bucky. I’m honestly not sure when Buck would’ve actually killed more people, tbh. Most soldiers in WWII would have been individually responsible for a fairly low number of deaths, if any, but I think that Cap 1 implies that Bucky’s numbers would’ve been much higher that the norm. While he was the Winter Soldier iirc canon says he was used for something like a few dozen assassinations, but idk whether that would include any collateral damage (if he shot THROUGH Natasha to get to a target then surely he took out plenty of other innocent bystanders as well).
I have to say that I think he was really, really messed up by the war and his time as a POW/torture victim long before he fell off the train, and his time as the Soldier probably just made a deeply fucked-up mental health situation much worse. HOWEVER, I don’t necessarily think that he has a worse shot at a happy ending as a post-Winter-Soldier Bucky than he would have if he had made it home after the war. Men of that generation didn’t talk about or seek treatment for mental health issues, and even in the extremely unlikely event that he did try to get help for his PTSD the available resources would have been … not great. Like, Freudian analysis or electroshock, maybe? All of my headcanons for a survives-the-war Bucky are pretty grim, tbh. But post WS Bucky in 2018 is going to A. have his trauma and guilt taken fairly seriously and not be expected to pick up exactly where he left off in 1939 as carefree charming Bucky Barnes, and B. realistically be expected to seek some kind of therapy or counselling or SOMETHING before he attempts to return to any kind of active duty (Not that Marvel would ever actually show one of their characters seeking therapy, God forbid, WOULDN’T WANT TO SET SOME KIND OF WUSSY CRYBABY GIRLY-MAN EXAMPLE FOR THE 13 YEAR OLD BOYS WHO ARE OUR TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC). So like, best case scenario 2018 Bucko has enough trauma to float a barge, a Steve Rogers with some VA meetings under his belt and access to Google, a therapist, a support group and maybe a giant floofy service dog named FUBAR (@yawpkatsi), while best case scenario 1947 Bucko has enough trauma to float a slightly smaller barge, a totally at-sea Steve Rogers, a parish priest, and a bottle of whiskey.
… that was a pretty long and overly elaborate answer to your straightforward question, whoops
The more I see comparison gifs like these, the more I think – you don’t carve the out the person and leave the skills – that is not what they did at all. They kept everything of the person (even gave him some more skills) and took the memories. What you have left is a being who is a hunter, who is a killer, who is loyal, who is protective, who is sassy and talks back, etc, and who is up for grabs. Without the memories to inform WHO to protect, WHO to be loyal to, WHO (and what) it is worth killing for, they can manipulate the character traits into being protective of them, of being loyal to them, of killing for them.
In some respects, that may be even worse, when he regains his memories. Because everything he did as Winter Soldier is still him. He can not look at those events and say – that was not me – because it was. He was not a robot acting on programming – he was him, acting on false information.
The way he twirls the knife as he fights, it’s so obvious he’s had years of training. Years of killing. It’s natural to him while something as easy as human speech and emotion is foreign to him. It shows how Hydra treated him like a war machine rather than a human.
Gonna have to disagree with this. Yes, you’re completely correct about the way he fights. It’s completely natural, but there’s nothing we see that says he doesn’t talk or feel emotion.
When Steve calls him ‘Bucky’, he doesn’t speak with a voice that sounds unused, he speaks easily and colloquially–’Who the hell is Bucky?’
He doesn’t just look puzzled or grunt out a partial question. It’s fluid, it’s normal and it’s in the syntax of a man who’s verbally at ease.
He gives the Hydra soldiers orders with equal ease in Russian. Not only is he at ease with human speech, he’s at ease in multiple languages.
We also see him feeling emotion. He feels when Natasha shoots him in they eye, breaking his goggles. He feels when she immobilizes his arm. He feels when Steve stops him from killing Natasha and they fight. He feels when he remembers Steve–to the point that his brain is so busy trying to put the pieces together that everything Pierce says to him feels unimportant. He feels when he falls on the helecarrier, and feels even more when he’s trapped and thinks Steve will kill him as he lies there.
Yes, the Winter Soldier is all about self control. He understands the value of fear as a weapon. He understands that not letting your enemies see what you’re thinking and feeling gives you an advantage, but that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t feel, or is a machine. It means that he’s very good at his job and very used to controlling the stray thoughts and memories that (if his actor is correct) frequently go thorough his mind, inexplicable and distracting.
To consider the Winter Soldier a machine removes the most poignant part of his story–that while Bucky had no memories of who he’d been, he was still there. He wasn’t a machine, a computer programmed to kill. He was a man whose mind was so twisted that he wanted to do it.
They weren’t overwriting him with a new personality, they were continually wiping resurfacing memories of who he’d been and the values he’d had. They were erasing choices he made as the Winter Soldier while on missions, because learning from past choices and results is how we form individuality and personal ethics. They were making sure his loyalties didn’t change from the one’s they’d given him, because he was capable of both having them and change.
Pierce speaks of ‘one last mission’ because they didn’t plan on him surviving Washington, so apparently controlling him had become more trouble than it was worth, which is really saying something, given his level of skill.
The tragedy of the Winter Soldier isn’t that he was an unfeeling machine–it’s that he wasn’t.
government officials plot to assassinate elderly disabled WWII vet (wounded in the line of duty) and former POW. plan is thwarted by unstable childhood best friend and WWII vet. their motivation appears to stem from separation anxiety, severe trauma and underlying romantic connotations. the two fugitives are considered to be dangerous and carrying weapons, do not approach.
a realistic synopsis of cap america civil war (via abbyheart25)
Seriously, why did they take this scene from the final cut? It is so very important! And not only to explain why Steve lacked the cowl in the end of the movie, but because this tiny moment is extremely important to Steve’s development as a character. He came to be seen as a fascist, as exactly that which he fought to destroy. Captain America, who sought to fight bullies his whole life, is now seen as one. Imagine the impact that had on his head. The meaning of his actions after he saw this. Steve began to give up the Captain America identity right here. This is why in Civil War he has no problems giving up the shield. He and Captain America have long been drifting apart. In fact, they were never one to begin with:
Steve went through his whole life trying to show people he wasn’t what they thought of him. Becoming Captain America was one way to do it, and giving this identity up is another one.
Steve isn’t unaware of the symbolism Captain America entails. For good and for bad. In The First Avenger he uses the symbol in his favour, transforming it. In The Winter Soldier he owns the symbol he became, working in favour of the greater good through his public image. However, in Civil War he has to give the symbol up, for it has come to represent something he is not.
When Tony tells him he doesn’t deserve the shield, Steve is tired of having to “prove” that his actions are those of Captain America. People put Captain America in a box that doesn’t fit Steve Rogers. Tony tells him he is not worthy of being Captain America, of carrying the shield his father made, as if he had betrayed what Howard Stark worked for, as if somehow Howard was responsible for the making of Captain America, and Steve became unworthy to be part of Howard’s legacy. This is just one way people created a general idea about who Captain America is, forgetting the man behind the shield.
Steve will be that which he has to be. That which he feels in his heart and head to be his duty, the right thing. He became Captain America for that reason, and for that same reason he threw cowl and shield aside.
They cut this?! UGH. This is so important!
How traumatising must it have been for a man who gave up everything, lost everything, even died fighting Nazis, to be seen as a fascist?
To have battled the monster for so long that he was percieved as a monster?
Just for reference, sliced bread was invented in 1928. – (x)
Here’s better perspective for this…
Please notice Bucky took pre-serum Steve to that shit. Just… think about that for a moment.
Remember this post whenever you feel tempted to take the Bucky Barnes Is Overprotective joke seriously. He’s not. That’s probably what made Steve get along with him in first place.
Honestly, Bucky’s complete confidence that Steve wouldn’t drop from a heart attack is funny, alarming and utterly sweet all at once
Just imagine how pretty Bucky had to smile to get out of trouble when he dragged a nauseated, bruised, half-dead Steve back to face the righteous fury of Sarah Rogers…
(And personally, I believe that Bucky is not so much protective, as he is territorial. Steve’s not weak, but lay a hand on him and you’ll learn just how strong they both are)
i think this is my favorite post on this entire site. bless.
WHERE THE FUCK IS THE GIF OF BUCKY THROWING STEVE THROUGH A WINDOW?!
Ok so heres my take: look at his face from the text-less gif on, thats…slightly more upset than anyone should be at a girl noticing your friend and not you.
Shame and self-blaming are incredibly common parts of PTSD, and you can just imagine how Bucky felt getting captured, and after everything he went through (unlike the other Howling Commandos you see all drinking together while hes isolating himself), he’s probably blaming himself for not being smart enough, strong enough, quick enough etc.
And who saves him? His tiny little friend, the one with the huge heart, but the one that always got his ass kicked and needed Bucky to come to his rescue. Now hes this huge super soldier saving him.
I think “im turning into you” doesn’t mean “usually im the hot one and girls dont notice ur skinny ass”, i think it quite literally means, sure, he’s got a big heart, buuut hopefully his big tough bff is around or hes going to get his ass handed to him.
@bloodyneptune I noticed in retrospect that Bucky is not totally okay at any point after Zola first tortured him. Here he is, as you say, drinking by himself in the corner, not with the other guys. He’s not even wearing his uniform tie. I think you’re right that his self confidence was shaken by his experience as a POW. For instance, I think in the train, later they were going after Bucky’s torturer on that mission. He ran out of bullets and he was clearly sick with fear right before Steve tossed him the new gun. I think he was under a lot of strain trying to hold it together in those moments. Bucky saying he had them on the ropes, was trying to reassure himself. Then he falls off the train and wakes up to Dr. Zola standing over him again, and his life becomes a nightmare of continuous physical and mental abuse from then on. Poor Bucky.
Oh man, whats amazing about that (I essayed a whole thing the other day because Im batshit like that) is that Bucky has his own entire storyline going on that you only see through his expressions.
Like, instead of taking up the time to have him talk about it, they just let Seb act it out along side and in the main plot. Like, that small look of total disrepair after “lets hear it for Captain America” which is clearly a victory scene, he’s got his own side story going on. The awesome montage of the Howling Commandos being badass and fun, his little sniper bit? Tucked right between fun, and Steve jovially saluting and back to the kickassery, he looks a lot like the Winter Solder; dead eyed and focusing on the mission, loading another bullet to put in another head.
I mean, you can seen he’s repeating his name and number over and over when Steve finds him, he was clearly already in the process of brainwashing. You’re taught to repeat those things when you’re being interrogated, not experimented on. The best explanation is that he’s trying to keep a hold of his identity. So really, the Bucky we see after he’s rescued is one that already got his toes wet in the Winter Soldier project.
Even when he says he wont follow Captain America, just that ‘little guy from Brooklyn”, I think you can interpret that differently too. The last time he remembers being the big guy, the guy in control, the guy that wasn’t fucked up and was needed to protect someone was with pre-serum Steve. He’ll follow that guy back into the one place he does not want to do because thats whats going to make him feel like he’s tough enough to do it again.
I contend that he held out until they told him Steve ‘died’. He was already going through PTSD, already thinking he was weak and self-blaming for getting himself caught and nearly brainwashed the first time, his last hope had to be “of course Steve will come again, just hold out till then”. If his self confidence and sense of being able to fight was already in pieces, it must have been sort of easy once he knew nobody was actually coming to save him.
A+ analysis It’s interesting that the movie definitely doesn’t spoon feed the story to us. But it’s there all the time. Bucky’s not in First Avenger much and hasn’t got many lines but watching it after WS and CW, wow I saw so much more going on with Sergeant Barnes. I agree that the name, rank and serial number thing showed he repeated it until he put himself into a trance or dissociative state. Then he asked if it hurt when they experimented on Steve to make him a super soldier. Not something I’d think to ask necessarily- does it reflect on the fact that they were already “conditioning” Bucky? Then there’s a great post someone did about Bucky’s and Zola’s expressions when they ran into each other with Red Skull and Cap. I reblogged it a while ago and can find and link you if you want, but the basic idea was Bucky is terrified of Zola and looks right at him, not Red Skull, while Zola stares at Bucky like he’s checking the effects of his experiments, like a scientist looking at a lab specimen. That’s a great example you gave of Bucky’s grim expression when sniping and right after. There’s a wealth of foreshadowing in that first movie and a lot of it is through Sebastian’s acting.
Uggh I know right?? Theres no way they could have fit in scenes of Bucky talking about what he’s going through and keep within the time frame and pacing, really. I think its totally fascinating that instead of just cutting the whole thing, they just let him go through his own plot right along side the main one.
And you don’t really notice unless you’re specifically paying attention to Bucky, because so many of his scenes after he’s captured are within fun, kickass, or silly moments like the Peggy/Steve scene. In the middle of the fun and joking, he’s acting like the mood and tone of the scenes are completely contrary to what’s being presented by everyone elses lines, actions and the way the music and scenes play out.
Actually, I hadn’t considered how oddly out of place “did it hurt” was. I think it would be a question that came long after “what the mother fuck”, “no but what” and “you need to explain this right the hell now because what the everloving shit is happening”.
But duuuude, what they did to him was basically a Hybrid ripoff of the super soldier project, “did it hurt” and “is it permanent” just took on some terrifyingly upsetting alternative meanings. Especially when we know Bucky gets those questions answered.
See what I mean?? They slip in this entirely separate narrative in making it seem like jokes and fun moments, and you almost would miss it if it weren’t for Sebs supernatural acting abilities. It just blows my mind that this shits in Captain America movies.
Have you read about the sounds/music in Winter Soldier? I’ll find it, that shit blew my everloving mind.
Well, the problem begins (as problems often do) with comics.
See, comics are a sort of ‘soap opera with capes and tights.’ Comics are ‘fanfic but written by mostly straight white guys who are chosen by other straight white guys.’ Comics are a never ending arms race of suffering, and that’s the problem.
So it’s hard to pin down a character. Because it’s not one character.
Every writer wants to make their mark. They want THEIR version of the character to be the one that people point to and say, “THIS. THIS is the quintessential Hawkeye. THIS is the reason I love Hawkeye.”
Because they’re not going to write the character forever. That’s comics. There’s always someone right behind them, nipping at their heels, someone who wants nothing more, in most cases, then to sweep their careful work aside and make THEIR mark on the character.
There’s not much you can do to stop that from happening. You can write a really good book, you can be clever and creative and still not hit the readership the right way. You can write A GOOD BOOK and you’ll still end up in the trash heap of the 25 cent bin, because the promotion team or the movie schedule or the competitor’s event cycle screwed you over.
It’s much easier to make a lot of noise. To be remembered, rather than beloved. To get people tweeting and talking and protesting and fighting, because that means when you tossed off this book, there’ll be another one waiting for you.
Don’t believe me? I mean, someone keeps giving Nick Spencer new books. (shrug)
So there is no one Hawkeye. The Hawkeye of the early West Coast Avengers has little in common with the Hawkeye of Fraction and Aja’s solo book run. The Hawkeye of the most recent Secret Avengers by Ales Kot would be unrecognizable to the Hawkeye of the Ultimates verse. Movieverse Hawkeye is almost a mirror image of Hawkeye of Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes.
When you love a character, the question is, which one? Because even if you take fandom interpretation and fanon out of the equation, there’s a lot of them to choose from. And while canon feeds fanon, fanon bleeds back into canon.
Describing the character you love takes some effort, some cherrypicking.
For me, it’s this:
On the surface, he’s ordinary. And his awareness of his ordinariness is part of what makes him so extraordinary. He’s raised himself to his current position by sheer force of will and a refusal to stop. He’s bullheaded and snarky and has a chip on his shoulder the size of the island of Manhattan. He’s not as stupid as he thinks he is, and he’s not as good as he believes he is, and both of those facts are a little heartbreaking.
He’s a man who destroyed his own hearing, because he knew if he didn’t, he was going to hurt someone he loved. He’s also a man who entered canon trying to rob Tony Stark, which was universally regarded as a very bad idea, since that’s how a lot of people end up dead.
He’s not a god or a genius or a super soldier.
He is a man who looked at the end of the world, and said, fuck you, I’ve got a COUPLE OF STICKS AND A PIECE OF STRING and I’m still going to KICK YOUR ASS. There is something comforting about that, for most people.
We want to believe, after all, that if push came to shove, if things got bad, then we would stand up. With all the risk, and all the fear, and a very good chance that we would not win, we want to believe, that we would still stand.
So all the other stuff, the ragged ends and the bad choices, the stupid plots and the OOC moments, the embarrassing contradictions in canon and the writers who can’t figure him out or don’t want to bother trying, it melts down to one truth at the core of his character, every time.
He is a man that doesn’t feel too different from you or me. And he stands. He makes bad choices, he screws people over, he ruins relationships and cheats on partners and girlfriends, he does stupid, stupid things, because this is a soap opera, and half the writers don’t remember what the last one did and the other half don’t care.
For all the parts of him I don’t like, he’s still my favorite. Because he shouldn’t be there. He has no place there. He’s outgunned and outflanked. Everyone around him is smarter than him, better trained than him, better equipped than him.
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